Season 5 Episode4: 'Always striving for my next promotion' Rosie Platt Head of Ecommerce & Range shares how moving retailers can help you find whats really important to you.

Hello and welcome to Buying and Beyond, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of retail buying. We're Kate and Linz and together we have over 30 years experience in retail. We're talking all things retail buying and beyond with real people in retail. This season we're joined by more guests, retail buyers, retail businesses, big and small, telling us their stories, how they got started and what inspires and excites them about retail. We lift the lid on what brands need and buyers expect. So grab your drink of choice and come and have a giggle with us. So today we're joined by Rosie Platt, head of Range and E-commerce at Not on the High Street. Rosie has a huge amount of retail buying experience, working for a wide variety of UK retailers, including Principals, Oasis, Jaeger, River Island, BBC Children in Need, and Superdrug. Rosie's a product development buyer at heart, like ourselves. So we look forward to talking all about product, retail, and of course, buying. Hi, Rosie. Hi guys, so nice to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, thanks for coming. Right. Let's get stuck for interwicks. We love to just go right back to the beginning. And one of our favourite questions to ask is, how did you get into buying? Because so many people don't know what buying is. So how did you land there? So this is so funny to answer because it's honestly difficult for me to even remember the moment that I was like, this is my career. This is what I'm going to do. Yeah. But I As a child, I was like always into shopping, loved retail, like Saturday morning shops with my mum was like the best part of the week. So I always knew that like retail was, you know, something that got me super excited. I was a bit of a nerd at school. I did history at uni in the thought that like, that'll get me any job, right? Wrong. But it was, you know, great to kind of use those skills that I really felt like I had like an analytics. research, all those kind of nerdy skills. But then it got to sort of towards the end of my third year and I was like, haven't really started to formulate a plan of what I want to do yet. And honestly, me and my friend, my roommate, we did a quiz. An online An online quiz. Like the ones that you get on MySpace or that. Yeah, like a quiz, a quiz, whatever it is. Literally, what should you be? And it came up, buyer. And as you say, no one's heard of buying like no one knows how products get in the shops. Yeah. So was like, Oh, do a bit of research on that. And just from one thing led to another. And the end of my third year came around and I was like, I better start applying for some jobs. Like don't want to go back and live with my mum and dad. And I saw a job at principles, which your younger listeners probably won't know what principles is because it doesn't exist anymore. But back in the day, it was a women's wear. what would we say, sort of like middle, middle of the road sort of women's wear retailer. It was quite a mainstay of the UK high street. then it was clearly on the, on the high street. Like it was a well known brand. was. And just one of the many that went under in, which I will come onto as part of my story, have many interesting stories of businesses that I've worked for going out of business. Oh gosh. But they had a job for an MAA, which obviously not buying, but I was like, this sounds like me. could do this rocked up to the interview not you know having a clue what I was getting myself in for and they got I got the job straight out of uni. you became a merchandising admin assistant from the brilliant it just does show that sometimes you don't have to necessarily have done like a degree focused on a particular area to get into that role as long as you've got as you say like skillsets that you can apply, especially entry level, it can mean that you can, you you go and like you said, you've done the re you've got the research, you've got an analytical mind and that's ideal for a merchie side, isn't it? mean, soft skills, that analysis, I obviously had like bit of the gift of the gab when I was 21 and they just snapped me up. But after three months of being an MAA, the buyer on the team that I was working for was like, you're not a merchandiser Rosie, you're a buyer. You're on the wrong team. You're on the wrong side. Literally. And she had a vacancy for BAA coming up and just got me in there. And it was a wonderful team. I obviously had no idea what the world of work was like having come straight out of uni. And it was very old school set up, handwriting a POS, everything goes in a paper folder. Like some very old Magento software, I think from probably from the 1980s and sort of old desktop computers, but. Yeah, an in tray and an out tray, file it in the PL with the data machine. Faxing. Faxing POs. Yeah. Yeah, literally, faxing, you faxing. I don't feel old. You saw on pull up renewables. But it was that and I just absolutely loved it. And 100 % knew it was for me. I felt so enthusiastic, just had all these wonderful opportunities. The team was amazing. And then nine months later, what happened? The crash of 2008, 2009 economic crisis and principles was one of the many brands to go under at that time. So nine months into the world of work, I had my first redundancy. That's hard at such a young age as well. you even kind of, you're still getting your head around, like you say, working, not being either with mom and dad or like in a university environment. And then you're in this world of work and suddenly all these things are happening out of your control. Like definitely you even really understand what's happening, you know, kind of. And it's interesting looking back on it because I think at the time, like you say, I was very young and I didn't quite understand the gravity of what was happening. So you do always have that safety blanket of like, well, I can move back in from home and you know, my dad, it all goes, all goes wrong. And there was this sense of almost like hysteria around it at work that it was so novel what was happening that they they chucked us out the office. We were allowed to come back because it fully went into administration. We were allowed to come back the following day to just grab things from the office because all of the assets were being stripped. You'd there and you'd be like, oh I've left my lipstick in my drawer. Yeah. Just pop in it's my favourite lip. But it is like yeah they lock you out don't they? Lock the doors you can't go in. Lock the door. It's almost like, you know, like with fire drills and they like leave everything behind. That was literally it. It's like, don't leave anything. If it happens, take your stuff. Ignore the don't take anything. If it is a redundancy or it's going into administration, take your stuff with you. A hundred percent. And it was hilarious the next day when we were allowed back in for about, it was like an hour or something. Me and my BAA friends had a suitcase filled up with samples. Yeah. sold or said samples on eBay. Yes. We don't have any money now, we don't have any income. Depop and Vintage obviously didn't exist in those days. So we thought we'd been quite enterprising. That is, I mean, it's also theft, but no, was a long time ago. And his sample, I mean, we all have samples. We've all got samples. I still have some of my samples. That's only part of the job where you were being paid minimum wage, for God's sake. anything I could siphil off was my bonus. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No bonus for BAA, was that? not. Yeah, exactly. Fictitious bonus. Yeah. Oh my God. Wow. It was, it was intense, but thankfully I think at that time, because the rest of the high street was very buoyant. And I think it was at a time when people had massive buying teams, you know, like six BAAs on a team. There was, I just seemed to remember that there was just constantly job adverts for BAAs at that time. And I very quickly got a job at Debenhams, which tied us- Debenhams, yeah. Off to Debenhams. Debenhams didn't last super long. I was quite ambitious at the time and I very much was like chasing promotion and as we all were, like chasing your next title. And my team at Debenhams was quite like an old, slow team. It was on the classics department, which was like women's wear for the over 60s. and me with like coming in every day and like my heels and I was like, this isn't, this isn't for me. I'm sure, you know, it was, was a wonderful- I wanted to turn my stock quicker. Yeah, exactly. to bring in some trend. Get me some trend. So hopped over to Oasis, which was again, feel like that doesn't exist or only exists online now. That's another brand that's- But that one did last for a lot longer, didn't it, Oasis? did. It's a little bit of Oasis. It's more of a recent casualty, isn't it? see it was. was. And they've had some bumpy times along the way, I think. Yeah. But my time at Oasis was amazing and got me up to JB. It was, quite an old school environment, but was amazing in terms of like moving around apartments, so much different experience. They treated the... particularly the AMs incredibly well and really fostered a culture of promotion, which was lovely to see and very much supporting people on their career development. So I got AM and JB at Oasis and then again, chasing my next promotion, hopped over to Jaeger. Oh nice. My second redundancy. Oh gosh. So Jaeger lasted about a year and was absolutely wonderful in the sense that it's a very different environment because at that time it was quite a high-end brand. they had, yeah, very like, and obviously it has that kind of British heritage, like that lovely sort of like British heritage handwriting, but at the time they did a show at London Fashion Week, so they had a sub-brand called Jaeger London which was my department. and they showed it at London Fashion Week. And then you basically bought, that collection was done by a designer. And then the Jaeger London buying team bought the collections from the shows. You'd kind of have to develop the sort of fashion show samples, because they weren't, it wasn't like ready to wear. You'd sort of develop them into your ready to wear collection, which was such a unique opportunity to be able to work on that. It was all using these amazing British and Italian fabrics, like just this incredible set of attention to detail, which you just, I mean, you don't really get nowadays and you certainly didn't get it you know, a high street level. And it was just the most incredible experience to be working with these teams of designers, like quite old school, but like they just cared so much about all this detail and they'd go to Scotland to source all these amazing like tartans and these beautiful yarns. And it was just amazing. And sadly, that also did a redundancy when they obviously realized running the Yeager London fashion show was way out of budget and they cut that entire Yeager London team after a year. It was great while it lasted though. was. really was. Yeah, as you say, to be able to play with that kind of luxury and that kind of quality while still being in the kind of the high street space. What an opportunity. Yeah, it really, it really was looking back on it. It was a short period of time, but it was definitely where I probably learnt the most about how a garment is made, why it's important to pay your garment workers properly to get, you know, amazing garments. And I guess it's a slower fashion, which was a complete contrast to my next move, which was to River Island, which was super fast fashion. So I was on the men's t-shirt department. And I would say that is really where I cut my cloth as you were saying, in terms of, right, this is what proper buying is all about. And it was turning stock crazy fast on, you know, one week's cover, buying thousands of options a year, thousands, millions of units in some cases. So a complete contrast. But I love looking back at my career that I've had those... is a very different contrasting company. So I think that's how you learn is by exposing yourself to a lot of different environments. And picking up so many different skills along the way. And as you say, with like River Island, like super fast paced, always changing. Like you've got to become where you've gone from something really slow and really considered. You're going into something like, does it match? I don't know. Do we have time? No, go with it. It's good. It's good enough kind of thing. The lab approval was literally throw under the lightbox for a second. Yeah, it's fine. Next. It's blue as well. It's not pink. It's fine. They're both blue. Go, go, go, go, go. Literally that. And then you're improving about 50 at a time because you're bringing in 50 different color ways of one t-shirt. It was absolutely bonkers. It really helps you then to be able to like completely multitask, be juggling things where you can be really focused on making sure you've got processes set up in other areas and other businesses you've been in. this one, not so much. The processes need to be down because we just need to be like, you're fighting fires sometimes as well, aren't you? You're trading, you're pivoting, you're coming up with new ideas, you're being really creative with your thinking, like, how am I going to move this stock? Oh God, that stock's moving too fast. How am I going to get more of that stock? Just go, go, go. I've always thought juggling of like the long-term and the short-term of like, I need a repeat of this in six weeks because it's, you know, turning this fast. But then this range that I buy on a six month lead time. how am going to balance that with my budget? And River Island was great with sort of the relationship that you had with your merch team because it was, I guess, at other companies that I'd worked at previously, they were in very different streams a lot of the time. And River Island was like, it was so joined up of like the way you'd work with your merch was such a close relationship. And I think I was very lucky to have very experienced merchandiser. who actually taught me a lot and almost made me realize that that merchandising side, I enjoy sort of almost as much as the buying. And I'm quite numerate in that way. And she was fantastic and sort of being like, this is how we forecast, this is how we get our run rate, this is how we forecast our stock. And having that relationship with her was fantastic and really made me think, ooh, what, you know. What more is there like beyond buying? Because I think the thing that I didn't love so much about the buying world was that kind of the fast fashion. was at a time when, I mean, well, and it's, potentially even worse now with Sheen and, know, all these, all these companies, but it's the churning out of clothes to sell them that you think, where's the thought going into this? Like what's our sustainability plan? like yes we would love to use these recycled fabrics but all over that margins not good enough and being stuck in between a rock and a hard place really of thinking like I need to tell my department really quickly but also this fast fashion isn't necessarily sitting quite right with where I'm coming from like with my my sort of moral compass and and so it's after about two and half years that I decided I think fast fashion isn't for me I've tried it I've done it It was hard and busy and exciting and did tickle my boxes from, you know, me wanting to feel really motivated. But actually at the end of the day, I was like, just going to have a little break and see what else comes my way. Because think up until that point in my career, I'd just gone from job to job with no pause, no time off in between, just absolutely chasing that next promotion. And I got to that age and was just like, I'm running close to burnout here. Like, this is not super healthy. No, I think it's really brave as well to take that break, you know, because you just worry that you're going to get off and not get back on or your thinking is going to slow down or whatever. But, you know, I've done it myself as well, like taking a few months. It's the best thing I ever did. Yeah, best thing I've ever done. So I think anybody out there that's feeling like that and can afford it. do it because it is and you will get back in or you'll end up doing something else, you know, cause it's just, refresh when you, and you'll be able to like reframe things in your mind. And, and I think it's, as you say, it's really good to talk about it and really brave to talk about it because actually at that kind of, if we think about, wanting to always get that next promotion that you're talking about Rosie, and that is, I feel like an absolute innate thing. in buyers, you know, we all talk about just wanting to get, and I think that's part of like your kind of skillset almost, or one of those kind of personality traits of a buyer is that you're determined to progress and to grow, and you're always wanting to do more and juggle, and it just, that's part of it, isn't it? But sometimes you do just need to stop and take a deep breath. Absolutely. And like you say, having a career break. is never a bad thing. And, I get, you know, CVs nowadays when I'm hiring for my teams and anybody who's had time out or a step down or a sideways move. And I find that fascinating. And I'm like, good for you. And I think potentially in the past, there has been this like, like you say, Katie, this image of like, we've always got to be moving to the next thing. We've always got to be, you know, striving for what's next, but actually doing a sideways move or a sidestep into another category, you know, a slightly like adjacent field like, well, my eventual move into Econ, like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things you can do that don't involve you always having to push yourself onto the next thing. I mean, obviously, if that's what you enjoy, amazing and people who make buying director, you know, obviously are those people who've gone the distance and who've, who've loved it that much. But at the end of the day, there's only so many buying directors and a lot of other people will have. fallen by the wayside as well, or just gone onto careers that feel more aligned to them essentially. Sometimes you can do those and then still come back in. Your move could still lead you at some point to a buying director role. So true. that you really identify with and feel that your values are aligned. Yeah, 100%. that's of where it's come from for quite a few of us that maybe have been in the industry for quite a long time, is actually... we've seen maybe the impact that we've had on the world and we question it a bit, you know, actually is there, there meaning behind that? the things that we created, like definitely when you talk about Jäger London, like, oh, beautiful crafted things that are meant to last. That's so important. You learn so many skills working in like something like, you know, somewhere like River Island, what you're doing, fast trading, and that's a whole skill in itself. But looking at ways that we can be more considered and sustainable that if we're gonna do the quick trading, that's fine, but let's think about the fabrics. But as you say, there's always that pressure on margin. it's almost like things have got to change for some of the faster retailers because it just has, it can't continue the way it is. But that doesn't mean that that fast trading doesn't exist. But actually, do they need to think, okay, well, let's just realign the balance here that yes, we'll keep doing that and we'll keep churning and we'll keep bringing out newness because that's our customer and that's what they love. But then maybe we need to take a little hit somewhere else or we need to just adjust where we are with what fabrics we're using, maybe our price points, maybe, maybe customers, if you want new stuff all the time, you have to pay a bit more. Yeah, 100%. And I think there are some brands out there. And largely, like you say about sort of saving on those overheads, it is online only retailers, it's people well, or people with a very small high street presence like Lucy and Yak, like Nobody's Child. I think there are some like lovely fashion brands who are, you know, being more mindful and considered and, you know, I don't know huge about the inner about the inner workings of those brands, but presumably they've got, you know, similar buying structure to what we're used to, but they are doing it at a slightly slower pace. They're being more considered and they're working with really good factories who, you know, paying a great wage. My sister's actually a... sort of she does a lot of sort of work around sustainable fashion and making sure that people are making the right choices and sort of highlighting the sort of garment workers unions and making sure that people have paid a fair wage. And I think the more that we can shine a light on that, there's some amazing charities out there like doing some amazing works of highlighting that. And I think if brands can have that at their heart. It just makes a better choice for consumer because you are able to still buy the clothes that we all love, but you can do it with a clean conscience. And I also think amazing what brands like Vinted and Depop are doing and kind of starting to create that circular economy. Because that feels like the future of like, we've got enough stuff. We don't need new clothes, but we do. So let's buy them secondhand and buy them off Vinted. and then resell our clothes. And I think the things they're doing in that space is has just rev, well, will be revolutionizing how we think about clothes. Yeah, they've just become absolute main players, haven't they? And I think the thing is exactly that. Like we need to, we need to guide the customers as retailers, because the customers may want something, but they're not going to stop buying. It's retailers that need to make a difference and they need to be the ones making the change. And I think if we think about where we are over our careers, where we were when we first started, I remember sustainability almost not being a dirty word, I'm not gonna say that, but it was almost a bit of a like fuddy-duddy, like, oh, sustainable, because it wasn't the nicest fact. We didn't have as much advancement in like beauty. Fabrics. Fabrics that are, you know, recycled, reused and things like that. And I think that just the way that we all talk about it has really made a difference, but it's still some of those large players that I get it, when you're a big ship, it's harder to move. but they need to be ones that leading the change because everyone else will follow and your customers will then be more familiar with it and then they'll be buying into it. And you do start to notice it more and more like, know, Zara obviously detects one of the biggest, well, biggest polluters, but the way that they have, so if you turned on, know, if you shop from Zara online, nothing is plastic. Everything comes, they don't even have a, like an inner bag, it's all paper. And that, for a company with a supply chain that big, like, you know, it sounds like a small change, but that's massive for them. They must have completely changed their picking and packing, you know, however they do it in their warehouses. And that is no small feat to think, you know, yes, they've got a long way to go, but they are going in the right direction. And actually less plastic feels more luxury. When I get my Zara package versus maybe another retailer and it's come and it's like just, it's all there, but it's just neatly folded in a nice bit of tissue. I don't think, oh, it's not in plastic or it's not separated or it's not clean or anything like I just think oh wow what a lovely gift that someone's hand-packed. It's got a boutique sort of element to it so yeah they're doing themselves some favors there I think and I think other bigger retailers could really learn from that. agree with you. I'm taking your sort of like your break for a bit. So yeah it's interesting what you saying about working for a sustainable brand because that was my that was then my goal. But again, there wasn't that easy move to be like, oh, there's this massive sustainable brand that you can come and work for with these exact skills. And so I was wrecking my brains and like, you know, how you do like, was brainstorming all sorts, like, do I want to go and be a teacher? And do I want to, you know, travel the world or whatever? Sadly, did not have the money for that. But I was my next best thing to work in for a sustainable brand. was like, charity, I'm going to work in the charity sector, made up my mind, obviously charities sell merch. and merch needs to be bought by a buyer. And just so happened that Children in Need were hiring for a buyer and I turned up there. So it's actually the internal charity of the BBC. So the headquarters were at the BBC old headquarters that where they used to be in West London. And you're basically buying the, you know, for the Children in Need appeal that they do in November every year. the little pudsy bears. The little yellow ear head baths. And are you working with the team to decide on the different design for each? Because each year wouldn't they do a slightly different like trend? That's right. What's pudsy trend this year kind of thing? We did the different little pudsy trend bears and it was almost River Island-esque of the volume because you're buying literally millions of ears. and you're selling them into like this big supermarket. So you've got like a big part of the charity is corporate partnerships. So you've got your different sort of bespoke orders for ASDA, for Co-op, for Lloyd's Bank, like whatever it is. And so you're working with these really big retail partners, buying your core range that you sell on the website and then distributing them amongst your partners. And the volumes were just absolutely, you know, wild. And it was... almost, almost as not I wouldn't say as stressful, but that delivery date of like, they have to be in on the first of October. We only have a You've got one date. can't cancel the live show because the products are there. There he is. Can't run Ponzi yet. So it was, it was an interesting setup because it was such a short window to buy the stock and actually doing that forecast, I said at River Island, I'd obviously really sort of learned quite a lot about that stock forecast. That came in so handy because we didn't have a merch team. It was just me and my colleague and then our manager, the three of us just doing it all together. We were all buyers. None of us have merchandising backgrounds. So we were running all the, you know, the P &L, running our merch spreadsheets together, working out that buy to, you know, the single unit of like how many exact units do we need to not because you can't have any stock right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, that was when I realized like, love, I actually love this. I really love that forecasting side and being able to kind of make those decisions and being a buyer and a merchandiser actually was, you know, really ticking those boxes for me. So that, I think that's quite a unique experience. And this was my third redundancy, believe it or not, I honestly, I know, don't even. You were old hand by this point. I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. Funnily enough, I was actually made redundant on this role before I'd even started it in a way because they hired me and then a week later, so the BBC all used to be based down in London and around, what would it have been, 2013, they moved all up to Manchester. and the people based in the London offices were given a year's notice to say we're moving the operation up to Salford, do you want to move to Salford? Obviously we were like no, no thanks, like we're based down here. So I worked a contract essentially, I worked a year's contract knowing that it would come to an end and a new team would take over up in Manchester, but doing that year was a fantastic experience in such a different organisation working within the BBC. It's not a buying organisation, you're basically working in a team of a charity that's in a team of a broadcasting company and we're just the three buyers just doing it all by ourselves. it was another very unique experience. You don't have that same hierarchy, don't have that same structure, almost you don't have that same camaraderie but you have it on just a really small scale. And most importantly, no sign off. Yes. Yes. No, when you're racking to a sign off. Just like we're buying this bit and these is, we're buying a million. Brilliant. Done. It's quite nice that you did that as a contract actually that you kind of could sort of like test the water, like move out of kind of what you what you know and what fills the milieu and the kind of high street space to sort of try something but actually knowing on both sides is a contract and we're just going to do it. We'll see how it goes. And sometimes I think people maybe sniff at contracts because it doesn't feel like it's a permanent role. But actually so often that can be a great opportunity just to sort of see what there is. And you also never know what's going to happen after the end of a contract. Like I was obviously very unlucky. Well, I don't say that's a very unique circumstance moving up to another part of the country. But with a lot of contracts, there is a role at the end of it for you. Because if you're amazing, you know, happens, happens frequently, so where I work now that bring someone on for a mat cover or you know a short term cover this project fits sort of piece of project work and then actually they're a great fit for the team they've done you know an amazing job and people find jobs for you like if you've done a great job on a contract like you never know what happens. they during that time with that contract things move so there might not be an opportunity but you never know when there might be someone else going on mat leave or someone else might find another job opportunity and like it just gets your foot in the door. Yeah, it's also really hard to find good people, isn't it? And I suppose it's not necessarily just good people, but people that fit in with the organization that you're in, have the same values or have the right personality. Like we talk a lot about this in an episode, very beginning of our podcast actually about, you know, if you don't get the job, it's not necessarily you, it's just because you don't fit. But so that is having a sort of years trial. if they fit in so well, like you don't want to lose that, do you? Completely and you know, people will do anything to keep the right people, know, once you found your people, you'll sort of, you we'll try and keep them at any cost, won't you? yeah, I definitely- with work experience, isn't it? Like, you know, that's kind of almost like an entry level version of maybe doing a contract sometimes, but you go and do some work experience and if they think you're good, they're not going to want to let you go. And even if like, like with your experience, Rosie, going in at like, and just trying it for merchandising experience and just go do that. And then someone's like, they're good, but they should be with us. You know, people identify you and they're like, yeah, okay. And then that can just kickstart everything. They can see your skills. Absolutely, absolutely. And it's interesting with the people I was working with at Children in E, just the three of us in our little team. It was the first time that I'd really worked, especially with a manager. And her career had been up to head of buying at Marks and Spencer. And then she'd taken like a similar side step. And my other colleague had always worked at the BBC. But it was honestly the first time that I really worked in a framework of very supportive management and having a manager with a coaching management style. And I remember she, my manager at once, sat down, she sat me down once and she was like, Rosie, I need to give you some feedback. And I was like, okay. And she gave me this like very, very constructive feedback that was super helpful. But my immediate response was to be very triggered and to say, I don't do that. You can't say that. I find that really like, you saying that? That's really rude. And she was like, has anyone ever given you feedback before? And I was like, no. No, I just coast along with it. Not coast along, but like I just move along and yeah. I've never been managed in a way where somebody has cared enough about my personal development to really want to help me out. And she obviously had to coach me through this moment to be like, can see you're being quite triggered by this, but I'm saying this to try and help you out. And I was like, oh, wow. Like for somebody to sit me down, I have a one to one with me for one thing, which I feel like find the time for that. Old school buying, don't think I ever had a proper one to learn with a manager. And it was the first time that I had really thought about, this is how I want to be as a manager. And this is a model that I am so inspired by and that I really want to try and emulate and really sort of follow. And I had quite a sort of intense reflection around you know, why had I felt so stressed in those old buying environments? Like, why didn't it feel quite right for me? And I think what I really hit on was that I didn't feel like I had support and that kind of psychological safety, that feeling where you're working in a team where if something goes wrong, everyone's got your back and everyone's going to rally around and help you out and working in this new environment. And I was like, oh, this is what it feels like to be really supported. And it's a team effort and everyone's sort of working together. And from that day on, was like, any job that I go to from now, I don't care about the brand. I don't, I mean, I care about the product in that it needs to be aligned with my values, but I'm not fussy about it being, you know, the fanciest or, you know, most amazing brand. I want to work somewhere that really values personal development, growth, and has that culture of trust and that everyone sort of feels like they're working together and... I managed to find it in my next role, which was, well, I had a very short stint of super drug. And then my, um, one of my co, the colleague that I've worked with at Not on the High Street, um, sorry, at, um, BBC Children in Need, she went to Not on the High Street as her next role after our redundancy. And then she said, Rosie, there's a role at Norths and it is yours. And that is where I've been ever since for nine years now. Wow. Amazing. such a great brand. remember it like from years and years ago and I actually almost moved to Richmond and I remember thinking, oh my God, I really want to work on Not on the High Street. So I was always looking for roles there but we didn't end up moving in. We actually ended up moving to Edinburgh. So completely different side as well. You'd be fine to work here now because we're fully recruit now. We don't have our Richmond office anymore. But yeah, it's obviously just, I mean, completely different kettle fish because it's a marketplace. So we don't hold stock. So couldn't be more different to buying in that you're, you have to learn a whole new suite of trading levers because your stock isn't yours. And it's just whatever is uploaded by your sellers, your partner base. And so having a marketplace model back then, especially like nowadays, obviously marketplaces are much more common and You've got many different ones of different scales. And I saw an interesting stat actually that by 2030, 70 % of all sales will be done on marketplaces. And of all transactions. Yeah. Which is super interesting. I think that's obviously online only, but marketplaces are obviously growing, but at the time it was only really sort of Amazon was there. Etsy was also there. eBay as well. And then not on the high street. And they were kind of the only marketplaces that you had. And so yeah, it's learning a whole new suite of trading levers, which is all based on demand. So you're only as good as your customer and you have to make sure that when you've got demand, when you've got customer signals, that you've got the right supply there. So it's working with brands and what we call my partners, the sellers to bring on the stock that we want, but essentially the stock. you have is the stock you get. So you have to just trade that. An element of sort of coaching. So when you talked about sort of, you know, personal development and how, you know, having a team that really supports and guides and, and all of that and feels very inclusive, I guess, not only do you feel like maybe you have that in your direct team, but also working with your partners, I can only imagine it's like actually coaching them and being like, you know, it's not a hard trade meeting of like, need I need 500,000 of them and I need them next week. You're like, actually, do you know what? This is doing really well for us. And you're talking to them and guiding them and I guess giving them insights. That's it. And it's a much longer term trading strategy. So you look at signals over, because you're dealing with, you know, hundreds of thousands of skews and you're looking at a trading pattern over a much longer period of time. So. Yes, it's lovely to come in on a Monday and see that, you know, this newness has taken off and has really started selling, but it's much more about sort of looking at growth and change on a category level. you're set, so over three months you see, right, my health and beauty mix has absolutely shifted to really start to grow. It's really taking mix away from other categories. What's our strategy to fulfill this demand here? And how do we go out to our partner base? to either get existing partners to bring on those sort of products that we want, or we recruit new partners, which is probably my favorite part of my role, is essentially hunting down the next bit of talent. And we do it in multiple ways. We do cold leads. So we approach people at trade fairs, people you see on Instagram could come from anywhere. then brands can also apply to sell with us and we have an application process. So we've got organic leads, call them cold leads and balancing your supply base and getting on the skews that you need. It can take many different forms and you could bring on one brand that fulfills your you know, your entire demand need, or you might have to bring on a hundred or a thousand in some cases, if you're really trying to grow a category. So it's quite... you need to be quite fine tuned in terms of sort of what your demand signals are. But having that relationship with small brands, especially when they're just starting out is the, can't imagine a more rewarding thing to do, honestly. Oh, that sounds so must be so appreciative of the support and the help and the guidance that you give. And also a platform for both sides to be really creative. Definitely. And because it's very diverse in terms of, you know, we do sell so many different product types. There is a place for everything. And there is a little bit of competition between some sellers who sell very similar product, but most of the time it's that they're all incredibly unique and that everybody's got a place because they're essentially small brands run by very passionate, creative people who are filling a range gap and filling a customer need. Gosh, what an absolute... variety. mean, when we first in the introduction talked about variety, that is the biggest, you know, bigger extremes and more versatile and like the number of skills that you've had to apply throughout your career is insane. has been, it has definitely been a journey, but you know, still learning every day. And I always think if you haven't, if you're not still learning, that's the red flag for me. That's when It's time to move on. And that's amazing. The fact that you've been there for nine years and you still feel like you are learning and you're, you know, getting, gaining new skills. So where we worked across, sorry, Rosie. I was just gonna say, I think that's part of working in a marketplace is that it does not, there's no, there's not really a handbook in the way that you have a handbook for bricks and mortar retail, which I know is obviously still challenging in its own ways. But with a marketplace, you're constantly iterating and evolving, which is why I think that learning curve is still there for me for hopefully a few more years to come. So where you've worked across clothing, beauty, gift and the charity sector, and that's super broad, you know, what has been your favourite or is that really hard to say because they are have been so different and you've liked different bits from different things? That's so hard to say. would it be and why? So hard to say. I think, I mean, I have touched on it already, but I think having that Yeager experience of buying things from, you know, a high end like catwalk London Fashion Week show was incredible. And at that time in my life, that to me was like the be all and end all of like, it was the, thought that was like the pinnacle of like the fashion world. You know, I was, I was very naive and very young, but it was so exciting to me. And I just, you know. It was my absolute dream come true. I would say nowadays, because I've been doing gift for so long and sort of a home gift essentially, that still excites me a huge amount. And it's hard to pinpoint a brand that I love buying it not on the high street or a category because it is so diverse. And it's just about having that like surprise of like, oh, this amazing, I don't know, like. escape room in an envelope that's just fallen upon my desk that, oh my goodness, what an amazing product. And knowing that people in Britain are coming up with these incredibly creative ideas, that, you know, as a buyer, like I would never have been able to come up with that idea, like they're essentially doing that all that kind of thing for us. And it's so fulfilling to be able to get to see all this amazing creativity. So inspiring to be surrounded by hundreds of people with such creative ideas. And as you say, like, it's really exciting when you get to do the buying and you have your ideas and you get you're like, that's my idea. And I get to it all the way through. But wow, to be just like constantly bombarded by like new things from other people that are being influenced by, you know, because they're living different lives in different areas, instead being exposed to different things, the, the kind of the things that they come up with are so varied. Yeah, the creativity like never fails to amaze me. And I'm sure you know, you guys have it when you when you go to a trade fair and obviously you have the huge sort of stalls there from the you know, the brands that you always see and it's lovely to see their development but it's when you see someone who's doing like their first spring fair or like you know, their first top drawer and they've got their little table with like the little tablecloth on and you just think good for you like the bravery that it takes to do that to go out on your own to make a product that you believe in that you're going to put in front of customers. know that's what I want to see like I want to see you know that that creativity and that excitement. You must be sort of party to lots and lots of different pitches and brands um yeah pitching to you basically what would you say would be your sort of top three pieces of advice to those brands and you know what makes what makes for a great pitch? Oh that's such a good question what makes a good pitch I think I I want to hear that passion the USP of the product, like, why has this brand created this product? What do they think will make a customer love it? Like, I don't want to hear about, oh, we've sold, you know, thousands of units to John Lewis or whatever. I don't really care about how popular it's been or how popular they think it's going to be. I more want to understand about why do they love it? Like, why do they think it's amazing? I think the next thing would be... Again, because I deal with such a diverse product range, it's hard to say like, oh, I know this will be a great product. But I think it's more about how have they thought about the commercials around the product. So for Not on the High Street, it's the sellers doing the fulfillment themselves. So not wholesale. So it would be, have they thought about their full customer journey? Have they thought about their, what are they charging for delivery? Can they offer free delivery? Can they offer very fast delivery? What's their sales strategy? What's their markdown strategy going to be? I think having thought about how they can trade the product commercially, I think is such a green flag to me because they've obviously, they've got this amazing creative idea, they've got this beautiful product, but can they actually deliver it? Is it going to take six weeks to deliver or can a customer click on it, order it, it arrives tomorrow at a great price, beautifully packaged? It's kind of that. they've thought about it really holistically. think that's a really important thing for me. Brilliant. Really great advice there. Yeah, that's really interesting. And what sort of things do they need to sort of be showing you? I mean, how much information would you want? Because you know, some people can bring that in an absolute entire encyclopedia of information about their brand, or they could shower you. I mean, how do you feel about random boxes of samples turning up? Do you love it or hate it? Are you like, yeah. that's really surprised me and delighted me today. I'm so excited to unbox all of that. Or are you like, I don't have space. And obviously it's a bit different because you're not working in like an office anymore. So you're in your own home. So for them to even know your address maybe feels a little bit like, oh, how do get that? Back in the day, yeah, back in office days, it was very much, know, unsolicited packages is a red flag for me. because I think there's better ways, there's cleverer ways you can do it. And say a personal touch, if you really want to send something to get in someone's hand, just send like a beautiful like handwritten message or like a beautiful like, come and visit our Instagram, you know, a little, you know, tiny sample of what it is, sending a pallet's worth of, you know, drinks cans. it's just, it feels like quite an old school way to do it. And I think there's a much more like personal way. that you can get in touch if you're a brand and you want to get into somebody. I think you can be much more creative with what you do. I think things that I would want them to tell me, I love knowing about their like social media following, like what's their approach to their socials? Do they have loads of followers? Almost to me, it's more important to know like, they really, you know, growing their social media following rather than, yeah, they've sold hundreds of units of it already. kind of want to hear a little bit more about their brand in a holistic way. Like how many followers have they got? Like have they managed to sell any on TikTok? Like let's have a bit more of a, you know, a sort of human element coming through. That's interesting. And as you say about, you know, kind of be clever with it and not necessarily bombarding because particularly with not on the high street, but many, many other retailers and brands too, so much of it is online. You shouldn't need to send your product should you these days as well actually, because how can you explain your product but virtually because that is what the consumer and that's what your customer is going to want to see. So you need to understand what it is through that. You don't wanna be shown something and then be, so what is that? Like it needs to be really clear what it is because otherwise a customer's not gonna buy it. But then it's probably nice to see what is the experience like at the other end of the customer journey once it arrives and. you're unpacking it, has it got tissue paper? Like we were talking about with Zara being so lovely. Has it got those like thoughtful touches? And I think like product photography is all is obviously so important, know, especially as sort of things are moving online and social media is so important for a brand's presence. And I think it's I think it's easier now to take really strong product photography with your phone. And there's so many amazing tutorials online that you can watch and you just need a tripod and some half decent lighting and I, you know, have a Pinterest board of like, how are you specifically going to photograph your product? Like what's your photography handwriting going to be? What's your, what's that like that brand synergy that shows like, right, we're always going to shoot it in like on the kitchen table and it's always going to have, you know, this beautiful kind of lifestyle setting or are you going to do it still life with like this pop of color that shows off your brand and or is it always going to be shown in someone's hand just something that shows to me that they've really thought about that. I guess it is like just your brand building that- And it's that end to end, it? Absolutely. Living and breathing your brand so that the customer lives and breathes your brand. Absolutely. You want the customer to just be super exciting to think, I can't, I'm not even going to bother Googling this and see if I can get a similar one elsewhere. Cause this is the actual, the exact one I want to buy and I don't need to go anywhere else. It kind of almost diffuses a bit of that kind of price matching, which let's face it with the internet at your fingertips, like an online, it's like one of the easiest things to do is like, you know what you want, and then you're just trying to find the best product, but actually brand loyalty is harder to get these days because there is so much out there. But once you've got it, it's absolute gold. And that's why I think delivery is super important as well, because we all live in this, you know, Amazon mindset of being like, I can get it the next day. So why would I bother getting it anywhere else? And it's important that, you know, we realize that small brands are probably just one or two people running it themselves. Like they might have a small team, but a lot of the time it is, you know, sort of not a lot of people doing all that sort of dispatch and fulfillment. But as a brand, if you can have a really solid delivery offering, so there's no chasing of like, it's been two weeks since I placed my order, where is it? If you can just promise a dispatch next day for a fee or a dispatch free in three days. having that clarity, because that's only, know, that's as good as Don Lewis or Mark Spencer, but have being able to say to a customer, giving them that reliability that they know when their order is going to arrive, I think is so important. And, you know, offering free delivery is obviously, you know, an amazing converter. And so brands, think just need to really build that into their offer, into whatever, whatever product they're selling. If it's online only, just how can a customer get it quickly? and how can you beat your competitors in terms of delivery? Make that commitment to your customer and communicate it to them. Definitely. slips, communicate, just let people know because it's definitely not one of those cases of like ask for forgiveness rather than permission. 100 % and everybody reads reviews. If you've got bad trust pilot reviews, know. If people are saying it took three weeks to arrive, know, it's going to really affect your customer trust and effectively really affect your conversion. So I think, you know, you're striving for those five star reviews and a lot of those will come on the service. What brands are you loving at the moment? Now this doesn't need to be any of your partners because I can, you know, it's probably like picking a favourite trial. But is there any brand retailer? product or anything like that, that you're certain moment outside and not on the high street that you, or yeah, or a person as Lindsay said, or somebody that you just think in retail that is just doing really well or you really admire or there's something about them that you think they want to watch or they're just exciting. I think, and this definitely isn't like a new thing that's amazing because they've been amazing for years. But I think the one that I always come back to is Anya Hindmarch. I just think. the way that she's managed to carve out this incredible niche of being like so British, but so quirky and having built up. don't know if you guys have visited like the little street with like all the little shops that she has. And it is honestly, I'd love to though. That needs to be your next inspiration trip, honestly, because she's always changing it up. think at the moment it's like under the sea themed. Some of her products are like fish and like. like jellyfish and then she's done her amazing supermarket where you buy you know the like ice cream and it's so unique and she manages to keep on reinventing it and obviously the product is is not cheap like it's you know most of us won't most normal people will barely be able to afford a key ring one day but it's aspirational in a way that makes you feel like you're buying into something really unique because i think A lot of high end brands, with accessories or leather goods, yes, we'd all love a Chanel bag, but a lot of people have that and there's a lot of knockoffs. so how can you, you know... Do you even know it's real? Do you even know it's real? Someone walking down the street probably won't think it's real because everyone's got a knockoff. But having an Anya accessory feels like no one else is going to have this because she produces such low quantities and because each... apart from her core range, like each of her new pop-up ones have such small runs that you think this is something that I could really aspire to buying. I think it's such- They really make a statement, don't they? They really do. And it's just such a lovely, yeah, like brand story. And yet you have to visit her little shopping street. It's in Chelsea and it's just the most fun place to go. Oh, I love that. We'll all be going out and suddenly it will be full of us all. Yeah. problems of us. See you next event there. So one thing we always do like to kind of ask, taking it right back to being buying, you talking about maybe you can let us know what your favourite moment of being a buyer is and then maybe what you don't like maybe quite so much. And if you've got one, a retail therapy story. Oh yes, I do have one. Get it off your chest. So my absolute favourite thing, well there is a lot of favourite things, but guess favourite thing... on the whole of being, you know, old school retail buy-in, it's got to the travel. I'm sure everyone says that, but having that opportunity at such a young age to, you know, just be told, right, next week, go into Mauritius, pack your bag and like go off for the, you know, this week's factory trip in one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Having that opportunity to be able to work, you know, abroad and kind of really see where the clothes were made and actually. almost what all of the factories we've run worked with when I was traveling with them were absolutely incredible factories just run by wonderful people and you're literally like yeah get off the plane you're in Bangladesh it's just this incredible country like that culture shock yeah it's just incredible and the other thing that I've loved as well is doing your like sort of like any trip to be honest but any kind of inspo break city trips I even love going to Frankfurt and doing Christmas world get me on that plane Get me around those halls. I just love it. I just, don't think there's anything better than getting out and yeah, seeing product in the wild. Yeah. I love Christmas world. love Christmas world. feel like a lot of people complain about it because they're like, it's just, I mean, if you hate Christmas as well and it's just like, you've walked 30,000 steps around the halls and you've just seen baubles, like you are going to go a bit mad, aren't you? But no, love it. You do go a bit mad as a Christmas buyer. You do. Yeah, think the hardest thing for me was probably at a time when I probably wasn't aware to take good care of my mental health, which I think we all are a lot more aware of now. And that has been, you know, quite a big journey, probably for the industry as a whole. But I think there was a time when it wasn't a priority and you did just work until 10pm. I remember coming in at having to come in at 7am and not leaving till 10am. Oh. And it's just... Especially the week of a sign-off. Week of a sign off, yeah. that's, some people actually thrive on that and that's fine. And I think if you are doing that in a very caring environment, there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it is a red flag if it's very frequent and you're not getting that support from your team. Very, very quickly lead to burnout. And let's face it, like working till 10 PM, like what's the quality of sleep really that you're getting? And we all know like your body needs sleep. You need to rest to be able to like... be firing like you need your brain power, you know, and what are you eating? What are you eating? I use wine on coke probably, like coke for the drink, not, not other. I mean, we're not talking that old school buying. We were, I think we probably weren't born then hopefully, but. Yeah, no, it was just diet coke addictions in our, in our office. Dairy milk was basically it. Yeah. From the vending machine at 10 o'clock. Yeah. We used to get a lot of brie accessorised, didn't we Kate? I loved cheese. Love cheese. And then you didn't sleep because you cheese dreams. dreams, yeah. Disaster. Or maybe it enhanced the creativity. don't know. My retail therapy though, and I could have had many because I just feel like it's such a specific environment, isn't it, in a buying office? I think everyone's a little bit hysterical a lot of the time and just things are just hilarious. and embarrassing things happen. But yeah, my one was when I was an assistant buyer, newly promoted and the head of buying had taken like a bit of a shine to me. And she, I don't know if she was like trying to like make me into like a bit of a mini me or like what the vibe was, but it was a bit weird. And she basically started treating me like a personal assistant. And she, was before a big trip. And she'd left getting her visa till really late. And she had to send me off with her passport to go and get her visa. And she was like, we take it to this like agency who do it for us. And it was this weird little like house that you had to go knock on the door of like somewhere at East London. I just got sent off to like run this errand to drop her passport off. So I did that, came back and was like, yeah, it's all fine. It'll be ready in like three days or something. Went off. in three days time until however long it was to go and pick it up. They were like, no, we don't have, don't have a passport. And I was like, Literally my heart was like in my mouth. I was going to be sick. It was like the worst thing ever. Like the trip was tomorrow and shouldn't have a visa. I was like, good God, a passport. Where's the passport? And they were like, well, it's still at, still at the embassy. So I had to get in a taxi, taxi across London to the embassy, waited in the queue for however long you have to wait in an embassy queue for hours, got to the front was like, I need Seven Toes passport. And they were like, we don't have it. Just came all the way back being like, don't have your passport. She'd have gotten to tell me that her name on her passport was different to the name that I knew her by. No! I'm running around going, where's this Searching for a passport that doesn't exist. And they were like, oh yeah, we've got this passport. And I was like, are you actually joking me? was almost two point of view. God. He'd aged like 10 years. I was genuinely, you when you genuinely consider like, right, I'll probably just never come back to the office. I'll change my name and I'll move away. And it was absolutely horrendous. And she just brushed off like, oh yeah, my name's, hmm. And I was like, didn't think to tell me this after running around long for eight hours. Oh my god. She strikes me as a of a lady buyer. We used to call them that in M &M's. Exactly. They would go on their trip without a laptop. Yes. What? I still work till like 12 o'clock at night on the other side of the world's time. Like how are you not taking your laptop? The lady buyer was such a specific breed. I did encounter quite a few, a few in my time. I I kind of, I'm envious really. I kind of wish that. I lived in that era too, you know? Yeah, just have that vibe about you to be like, yeah, I'm just gonna swan about. One of the ones I worked with literally looked like Anna Wintour. She had an actual Anna Wintour hair. was like Devil Wears Prada. And she was that level of scary of like, you just don't approach her for anything, just like run away. She'd like to sit in a sign off, completely silent, just like, but once on an India trip. she it was very hierarchical, where I worked when I went to trips to India. And it was junior buyers had to fly economy buyers got business head of buying and above got first class, which come on, come on guys, like, that's not great. You don't need any more or less sleep if anything. Exactly. You need to reverse it. Totally. But she ended up being very cool because on the way back. We'd had a really hard trip. Everyone had been a bit sick, like, you know, as you are in India and just, just so, like so hard negotiating with suppliers and stuff. And she silently got me upgraded to first class and was just, oh no, class ticket Rosie, off you go. And she barely ever said a word to me apart from that, but I was like, that's cool. Oh, that is a classic. That is definitely a world's You don't want to speak to anyone in first class anyway. We just want to enjoy it. Exactly. I thought you were going to say that it was so hierarchical when you went out for dinner, they made you sit at different tables. I mean, it was all it honestly was almost that bad. But though the flights were just like, oh my goodness, can we just not all fly business for this? we're just together. Yeah. You see why you were seeking a company where you all kind of nurture each other. kind of, you know, there's an all we're all in this together kind of an attitude. Definitely, definitely. But no, it was that's probably my dirty, my dirtiest laundry that I can say for this podcast, I can tell you. I mean, anonymously, and we'll read them out. Definitely. Oh, Rosie, thank you so much. That's been brilliant. We've talked for so long and I've loved every minute of it and have learned so much. Thank you. an absolute pleasure ladies and absolutely just loving what you do. I think it's so needed that there's people in this space of advocating for buyers and for the industry and telling our stories. So thank you. Oh, thanks. Brilliant. We'll definitely send in the rest of those stories because we can't wait to listen. Will do. All right. We'll speak to you soon. Thank you. If you're a product based business, whether it's home or accessories, plant pots or jewellery, or any other product for that matter, as we have experience in over 35 product categories, then you might be interested to know that we have created a retail ready bootcamp just for you. Are you ready to land in retail stores, scour with confidence, or finally understand what buyers really want? We've created a six week intensive program. built for businesses and brands like yours, designed by us, two former head of buyings with over 30 years of combined experience in retail. Each week we'll run a live one hour session covering everything you need to become retail ready. We'll cover topics such as how to refine your offer to meet buyers' expectations, nailing your pricing for profit, finding the right stockists, building your go-to-market and trade strategy. leveraging relationships to grow, and how to manage orders, stock and retail partnerships like a pro, and so much more. You'll also get a one-to-one session with us for tailored brand feedback, our retail readiness toolkit to take away with you, and access to a WhatsApp group for community, collaboration and accountability. We don't just teach, we open up the floor each session for honest collaborative discussions with other ambitious businesses. So if you're tired of guessing what buyers want, this is the time to find out. Head to www.buyingandbeyond.co.uk forward slash bootcamp to join. See you there. If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, please, please, please like and subscribe and leave a review. And if you already have, thank you, thank you, thank you. We all need a bit of retail therapy and this is the perfect time for you to offload about that super cringe-worthy story. We would love to hear from you all, your funny stories and experiences or even any dilemmas and maybe we can help or at least find someone who can. And don't worry, we will keep these anonymous and remove any names and brands. We would also love to hear from you on any topics you would like us to talk about. please send all of these into buyingandbeyond at gmail.com or drop us a DM via our Instagram page at BuyingAndBeyond. Kate, are you a drama queen? No. Drama just makes things interesting. That's true. All these thoughts and opinions are our own and based on our own experiences working for a wide variety of retailers. These are all in the hope to entertain and educate and not to reflect negatively on any place we currently or have previously worked.