Season 5 Episode 2: 'So, your moving to Denim…. On Monday!' Shani shares it all, from Arcadia to Superdry

Hello and welcome to Buying and Beyond, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of retail buying. We're Kate and Lyns and together we have over 30 years experience in retail. We're talking all things retail buying and beyond with real people in retail. This season we're joined by more guests, retail buyers, retail businesses, big and small, telling us their stories, how they got started and what inspires and excites them about retail. We lift the lid on what brands need and buyers expect. So grab your drink of choice and come and have a giggle with us.

So today we are joined by Shani. Shani's worked for Arcadia, Tesco, Tyrac and Superdry, all large UK retailers, but with very different buying offices. And Shani is here to tell us all about it.

Shani, Hi, thanks for joining us. Hi! I'm gonna say Tye Rack?! They're not even here anymore, are they?

I know, I nearly said 'Tye Rack. remember them?!' But then I was like, well, Arcadia, remember that?! And then I was like, you don't need to do that for Arcadia because everybody knows Arcadia, right?

Yeah. Yeah. It's a big one. Yeah.

Now to start, not only have you worked at all of these really, really well-known places, but you're also very, very well known to me. because we studied the same course. We did retail buying BAHons at DMU, De Montfort University. But yeah, like far too many years ago. Scary. It is, isn't it, when you think about how long ago it was?

Well, it's 20 years. lived so many lives since. Isn't it 20 years this year? 2005 we went.

20 years. 20 years ago we started our buying career.

You can't tell at all.

No, hilarious. Love that. But yeah, 20 years ago, we started our careers.

But yeah, and then why did you choose the course?

Do you know what, I went on loads of open days. I don't know why, but I went to Leicester, to De Monfort with my dad. And then I just, I can't even remember like choosing that specific course. It was like that whole of the design department presentation. And then they kind of then start talking about buying one. I don't think I went to the design one. And then there was that like pathway. And I remember Helen Dunn was the woman who was doing the talking. then, yeah. And then she just kind of, it just kind of resonated with me because I just knew I wasn't a designer. Like I just knew I didn't have the like sort of skillset and like the drawing. couldn't draw at all. And then my dad was like, well, this one sounds good. And he started talking to Helen. And then, I don't know, it kind of went from there. And then basically I felt quite at home in Leicester. I don't know why, like I walked around and I was like, I just feel like I belong. I still feel like actually that attachment to Leicester now, but I just felt, I've been to Leeds, I've been to Manchester, I've been to Nottingham. And then I went, I just felt, I just felt right. It's a bit like with a house And you're like, this is my house. It was like that. walked into Leicester and I was like, this is the place. I love that. It's like when you know, you know. Yeah. And thankfully I did. So yeah, then that's- it

For me a little bit was, is it called a Patinator?

Yeah.

I say sold it for me, also terrified me, but the moving elevator that's just like, looks like a changing room that you just like step onto and it just keeps moving, doesn't ever stop and you just gotta jump on. And I at first thought it was really, really fun. Then when I went to go and do it, I was a bit scared, held my dad's hand, then on reflection was telling my mum about it and was just like, how you can do that with a portfolio? And I was like, oh my good God, how am I gonna do that with a portfolio? I would be like tripping over all over the place. SAhethere'll be another lift to do it on your portfolio. Yeah. Wasn't it gone by the time we got there? Yeah. Yeah. I had very first memory it gone. Yeah. I'm glad though. Maybe too many people have fallen over with their portfolios. Yeah. Yeah, it was just it was just a basically like health and safe disaster, wasn't Yeah. And you remember them saying you have to get off at the bottom floor because otherwise you go underground. You go where? Because the thing just continues going round and like a belt conveyor belt. So if you don't get off the bottom floor and you miss your stop, you're going down into the basement and then coming back up round. Well, that's yeah, I think you should definitely link like a visual. of what that would have looked like. Yeah, I'm nearly confused right now. I have no idea what to think about. I will. share. I'm going to share a picture of it. If I can find one, if I can find an existing picture, I'm sure it's gone down in history. Anyway, aside from that, yeah, Helen Dunne, brilliant. She was, because all of the tutors have been in retail, hadn't they? Yeah. They had so much experience. Yeah. I can't remember her, Pippa, Pippa Clark, wasn't it? Yeah, Pippa Clarkson. Yeah, she she'd been top man, hadn't she? Yeah, she'd been top man. And then you followed a little bit in her roots, I guess, in her footsteps. Kind of took me a little while to get there, To slogged it off, slogged it at Topshop Visual Merchandising for quite a while before then, Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah. Well, Kate went straight into a job with Accessorize. My sunshine's getting on my face. And then I... So I stayed in Leicester for like two more years. I got my first job in 2010 and we graduated in 2008. I just remember thinking like, it just was such a slog, like trying to get that first job. So I can't remember where else I I absolutely wanted to go to Next because I was in Leicester and I wanted to get a Next. I applied so many times for the Next, like whatever it was, to the graduate program. But every time like my tests came back and they failed, I was like, how can I have failed? I don't know, there's loads of like, tests that you had to do. And it was mostly like, like maths. I don't really know. I really should look that up. But anyway, I didn't get through and I was like, well, that's, was it. That's kind of what I wanted to do. I didn't want to. That's what you want to do. And you're like, I've literally just done a three year degree in retail buying. Like, how can I be failing? I know everything. But it was all like competence. Like, I think it was literally maths. Like, I remember it being like on like math stuff, like formulas and what you call it. don't know. Anyway, then we decided, so then K.I. and Rachel, another friend, we decided to move to London and I basically decided to make that move based on not having a job. That's like sod it. Like, I'm just going to make this move because London's where it's at and I need to like, you know, move on with my life and stop being a visual merchandiser at the top shop, which was great, but it just wasn't my trajectory and it was hard work. And also it was quite lonely. Like I was in Leicester then by myself pretty much. So it kind of felt like you needed to get back into actually having a, I don't know, just going somewhere else. So then we moved there, literally, I can't remember what the timeline was, but basically I had an interview for Birth to Menswear. And then in the interview, the woman who interviewed me, she was called Jane. It's funny how you remember names, isn't it? Even though you would never see these people again, but you've got these like specific visualization and the name because they gave you a lifeline. And you can like, you like, I worked with her like after that point and saw her around. I was like, you literally like changed my life in that one moment. And that's what people don't realize when you're employing someone. It means so much, especially to a graduate back then anyway. And so anyway, so she interviewed. So I got the interview and then literally as she gave me the job, I it was like about maybe half an hour later, I got back on the coach. Was it a one pound megabus? Yeah. Back on the coach from Victoria, got on the coach from Victoria and then went on to like to Leicester and then they called up and said we'd to offer you the job and I was like, does that mean I can like put you down as a reference for my flat? Because like there was neither references and I literally had no one apart from Top Shot. So God knows what would have happened. I'm guessing I had a guarantor so it'd be fine, wouldn't it? But yes, that was that. just shows it was meant to happen. Like, you know, and sometimes you do just have to take that leap. Yeah, like being like, okay, I don't know what's going to be there. It's maybe not, but it's now or never. Let's do it. And I work out. I quite like taking a risk though. Risks are good, aren't they? Because like, if you don't feel, if you don't feel, if you feel comfortable, then it's not going to change you. So I mean, thought that from a very young age, because that's probably something I've learned in the last couple of years of my life. But actually now. That probably was the first little step. my dad is always off the cuff, basically just just does things on a spur of a moment. So it probably just had that spontaneity part in there somewhere. But you're so right. Otherwise you end up so stagnant, don't you? You can be comfortable. It's a bit like, you know, you can be, if you're busy in the day, like you were saying, like you are super busy. So thank you so much for squeezing us in. Super, super busy in your day. But actually, that's a really good thing. And you feel excited. And if you have a moment of being like, oh, I've got a quiet time, like, what do I do? And it's a bit like, if you're not busy at work, then actually, you feel a bit bored. Or it's actually just us conditioned as buyers because we're so I definitely think that's us conditioned as buyers. Well, I think you know, there's points in time of your life where you have to be like quite sort of like, You have to take it slowly because it's the right thing for your, for that point in time of your life. But then the times when you're like, go, Joe, what this, I don't know. People are different, aren't they? But I think, I think your brain does tell you quite like when things aren't quite right. And you're like, I shouldn't make a move. Well, um, so that was, yeah, that was Arcadia. So didn't stay there for that long. I stayed there for like 14 months because I then went to Tyrac because I wanted to be an assistant because when you're an admin and like all your friends get promoted and you're like, I don't know when you're like that age, you're just ambitious, aren't you? You're like, I want to be an assistant. Yeah. then you get to assistant buyer position. You're like, this is horrible. I want to be back down there. like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause then you've got two people that you've got to like basically spread yourself with. Cause you've got your admin that you need to try and manage, which can be a bit of a tricky situation if it depends who you get. And then you've got your manager, which is the buyer. And then you'd be all a junior in between that point. So. Yeah, it's funny how you strive to do something. Actually, when you get there, you're like, God, finally I could just get back down on the ladder, go and sort out some samples in the cupboard. But only I could just have five minutes in that sample cupboard. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, to be back in there. Oh, to not have this responsibility. I Yeah. think it is more the communication, isn't it? It's a lot like trying to communicate properly and efficiently. And that's skill that you have to learn quite, I think, probably quite quickly. And some people probably still don't learn it, to be fair. Yeah, I think you're right. And like you learn kind of, I always remember you learn to adapt to the buyer, because they're kind of like heading up the team. So that buyer has a certain style and sort of way of doing things and like things that you start to get like, will they like it or not? So I don't know if you had this, but like, like with the light box, like, and you're doing a color match of, you know, a swatch that's come in and like, there's some buyers that I'm like, they would be like, you know what, it's close enough, go with it. then the other buyers would be like, that is not the same. And you'd be like, kind of. they're like, well, in that light, it looks slightly more gray. And you're like, so you kind of learn like how to be like, nah. And when you've got when you're sort of the admin, and you've got an assistant buyer in the buyer, for example, in like a really like, classic structure, your assistant will have learned already what that buys like, most of the time. And so you're just following your just like, okay, this is what they think this is what they think we all think the same. Whereas when you're having to like manage down, you're like, no, no, no, no, she will not like that. No, I know. I know it looks exactly the same to you. I agree. They're not going to agree with that. Okay. So, and you're having to like pass on that knowledge and teach somebody and, sometimes some crazy things that you're like, you just have to do what they want. Like, I know you've got your own opinions. No. Yeah, it is. think it's more about people management than people ever realize when you go into that job to be honest. Yeah. Especially as you get further up, especially as you get further up because you get less away. You get further away from the actual job, don't you? And it is just like, you know, managing. What's the word? It's like managing school children sometimes, isn't it? Well, I say this as I'm like a parent, like basically the rest. If you're manager or anyone leading a team, you are a parent to those people. and like the skills that that's why I mean, I on my high horse about like females in management and how there should be more of them because you've got the credentials like you've got literally if you're a good parent depends. I mean, we're all a bit you know, the try hardest but you know, and yeah, I think that you're we always try to parent and the way your parent is trying to like, you know, you manage a situation you have to decide where you're to take your battles and why you don't take your battles basically the same thing isn't and negotiation skills. realised that a three year old could have such good negotiation skills. Yeah, you learn very, very quickly, don't you? I was like, all these things I can in my job to practice right now. Yeah. And most of it's just bringing out snacks, Kate, eh? Which is how we're working a sign off too, right? Yeah, exactly. I really want to place this. Would you like another biscuit? Yeah. Okay. Cool cool more biscuits next time on that too. Amazing. You have to you have to have biscuits if you're a buyer right? Yeah I remember once my one of my buyers basically we went to a supply meeting and she she requested she asked them to go out and buy biscuits and I would never forget that moment because we got there and they were like do you want tea coffee? Like yeah and then we were like expect the snacks and then we were like didn't bring out any snacks and we're like like can you Do you mind going, have you got any biscuits? And they were like, no. She's like, well, can someone go and get some? And I was like, bravo, bravo. We were all famished. We've been up since like the crack of dawn, traveled down to Romford, I think it was, and like, no biscuits, terrible. guess that's the one you can't do on diet. Yeah, Brain power takes a lot of energy. You need a sustenance. You do. So Tyra, what was it like? And so Tyraq was mental. Basically, the guy who'd kind of who was head of buying, shall we say, in a very loose terms, it was a very small set of people was came from Burton. So he used to be used to head up suits in Burton. And I had a bit of rapport with him. So then basically, when I applied for it, he obviously interviewed me. So I got the job on the day that I started. This is a funny story. On the day that I started, I was getting the train. It was in Chiswick. or like, can't remember the, there's a stop before Chiswick. Anyway, it was there around that area and they had their head office. I fainted on the train, pull on, fainted, woke up and they were like, there's people around me, like trying to offer me water. And I was like, is this an omen? I just went into the office as like normal. And I just think poor, I just, like, poor little me, like poor young Sharnie just. powering through and not telling anyone that you fainted on the train, but like, it's quite traumatic. I think it was just too hard, but I think it might've been an omen because basically then about a month after I joined and it wasn't, there was no structure like the junior or the assistant that was there. So I joined as an assistant, he would've been an admin. kind of hadn't ever been in buying. He kind of came in by, don't know, just by fluke, I think. I don't know how he got the job. I guess maybe he knew someone and he was just doing someone a favor. So he didn't really have any buying experience at all. And so there was a lot of processes that weren't in place. A lot of things that like were just full on by the wayside. Like these, was owned by an Italian, I guess company and they would just do, I don't know, just like, they were just stock everywhere. There was stuff everywhere. There wasn't a specific buying process. There wasn't any, like they didn't have set sign-offs. and have set launch dates. It was all very like, what? And then the guy who brought me in left after a month, he got sacked. And then I was kind of left there like, am I doing here? I don't know what is this? I think when you come from somewhere with so much structure, like Arcadia, such a huge enterprise with so many different channels to it, all doing very, very traditional and structured. ways of working with so many departments doing everything. Then go to something where you're just like, you haven't got a sign up? So I'll just place it. Like on the one hand, you're like, free rein. And on the other hand, you're like, this is just madness. Yeah, but as an assistant, you're like, what do you, like, where are the samples? Like, where, what are you, you didn't have a clue. I think at one point I was like, what's in store? Like, I even know how you know, how do you know what's in the store? Like it was mental. But the thing is that gave me the massive opportunity to, so I traveled like I've traveled everywhere there really like I traveled to Italy quite a lot, but then also China, India, the opportunities were huge. then, so there was, like, yeah, it is good when you can get into a smaller company, even though it is like when you're younger, you just like what do you mean? It's not, yeah, but it does offer you a bit of, especially if you show like willing and you know, promise. remember you going traveling and thinking. she got to go traveling already. Because I'd started my job. I've been in my job for a while. She comes along and she's already traveling and I'm not. And then I think I managed to go to Italy as well. But it was a lot like it was quite a while after you'd gone. So I was like, yeah, okay. All right. You don't know where any of your samples are. And I know where all of mine are, but you are traveling the world. It's funny, isn't it? think you slowly realize that that's not quite as fun as you think it's going to be. Cause like you just shattered the whole time. But it is fun. When you're younger, it's fun, isn't it? Because you get to go and see places. I just remember having a fire at one point. just just basically, every time we got out of the car, I wanted to have a fag. Every time we got in the car, I wanted to have a fag. I was like, I'm starting smoking now. Like, I don't smoke, but I'm just stood here inhaling your smoke because you're my buyer and I need to pretend I like you. I'm gonna tell you that Rachel from Friends episode where did you start smoking on those trips? Because you were just like, my buyer is. Yeah, in the car, oh at the car. Yeah, and yeah, and there's lots of yeah, there's lots of other stuff that comes with it isn't there? Where you have to like go out for dinner and you just want to go to your hotel room, that's part of it. When you're younger, it's not so bad. Yeah, they take you to nice restaurants and you're gonna have like nice meals and you experience things that you've never experienced before. It's lovely. But yeah, at the same time, you still when you're on a trip, you have to do your day job as well as traveling. So while it's lovely to go out in the evenings, like sometimes you're just like, no, my inbox is full, I've got so many people to respond to. And once I've had this dinner, I have to go home, like go back to the hotel and I have to work. And then I still need to get up early to go to more meetings. Oh, by the way, I still have jet lag because every company will let you travel in style. No, you can't always sleep on the plane. And then you're very much often just straight off into meetings. Yeah, having like a ridiculous day because they're all up. when you go to bed, so you've almost got to work at 24 hours a day. Never stops. Yeah, I'm good with it. I don't know what about you, but then you've got to write up notes, meeting notes, and the buyer doesn't do that. And so you've been very much integral in the part of the meeting because also the buyer's like just handing you stuff and you kind of have to make sure it's all documented. And then afterwards, oh, you can send out those notes. You're like, yeah, I'll send them out. I'm so tired from sitting there and just pointing. at you to tell you to do things. Could you just, you remember everything as well as you know, doing it all right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? When you become a buyer and you're so aware of that experience that you've had. I've tried not to be like that, you know, but obviously it's when the she's on the other foot, it's like so aware of your experience as an assistant, you know? Yeah. And then you also feel like you don't want to do that. You got to set the standard. You got to set a boundary. You can't let me help in too much as a buyer because essentially you do need them. That's a skill that you've got to learn as an assistant or a junior. So yeah, it's a very fine line helping slash also been like, you got to just got to do it mate. Sorry. But you gave you so much experience and then you actually went back into something really quite structured. It's almost like you're craving the structure again. Um, yeah. Yeah, so I, yeah, 100, I like totally, but also like getting that, it was a bit crazy though. So basically I used to live in Putney and then I used to travel 10 minutes like on a train to work to Tyrac and then decided to go for a job at Tesco. And that was like about a two, I think it was like an hour and a half commute from Putney. So then we, yeah, so I was just like, I, when I, when they like rang up to say you had the job, was like, oh my God, that's amazing. Cause you actually get really elated by the fact that you've been like. praised for how good you did in the interview. And I'm wanted. really wanted me. Always driving for something, for feedback. then, and I was like, oh my God, I haven't really thought about this. It's different when you don't have children or any other responsibilities just you and a partner. But yeah, so the Tesco thing, was, yeah, that was, it was so much better. I knew at that point that I wouldn't have any more opportunities really to travel that often. So then, Yeah. So then back into Tesco and then we're there for quite a while actually. I was on various different departments. I was thinking about this the other day actually. The most, most frustrating thing about buying and probably for anyone, I don't know if this happens anymore, but how like they just basically just think they own you. I just think of the other day, like you used to just get to go, hi, I'm going to take, have you got, I've got two minutes, two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, bricking it. Then you go into this meeting and they're like, so we're going to move you to Denim. You're like, when? Next week. Oh, Are you like, no, you can't. I used to get so angry. Like my moral radar was just like, I used to get so angry with that. Like you basically just never know whether one day they're yeah, little pawns Like, well, we really need some more, you know, experience. That's BS, because you just want to move people around for the sake of moving people around. Or in my case, the supplier had actually made a, made a semi grievance about how I'd spoke to him. He was one of them, know, one of those men in line who knew the head of buying who then went, Johnny has not been very accommodating. I'm like, well, you're trying to increase the price by 50%. And she's telling me it's unacceptable. Yeah, she's just doing her job. I want to work with her anymore. Yeah. And then they're obviously probably getting a bit of a backhander. So the head of buying is like, probably gonna have to move you then you're like, Oh, right. But yeah, that's really nice. Does they boarding a flight to Dubai? Yeah, exactly. And one thing I don't miss is just never knowing if you're actually going to stay where you are and just kind of having no like no control really. Yeah. Yeah, that's uncomfortable. So you decided after a few years of moving around, moving around, moving around, you wanted to move your route somewhere else. You moved out of London, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. Then I moved to Superdry. Why did I move to Superdry? You missed the craziness of Tyrac and thought, let's give it another go. Yeah, maybe I thought, let's just get back. That was mental as well, actually. Like Superdry was just a whole different ball game. I don't even know how I came across the advert, be honest, for Superdry. I just remember having the interviews and the head of Bayern was really, really lovely. And I remember going down there and being like, I don't know if this is... because it was Cheltenham, so it was quite a far drive. I don't know if I wanted to be there fully, but then when, when you get offered a price or when they say, and you're like, I'll negotiate and I like, this is how much is going to be in there. Like, yeah, okay. You're like, okay. So we're moving to Cheltenham. That's exactly what I said to Craig about my husband. Um, I think he was my husband at the time, or maybe I can't remember. I was like, yeah, we're moving to Cheltenham or somewhere around there. He's like, right. Okay. But then, yeah, so then that was a different ball game. And a super interesting set up, didn't they? I remember you telling me about that and coming from like real traditional, I think at that point, I was still in a very traditional setup and I couldn't quite get my head around how their buying worked. Well, you're buying. The buyer is supposed to be king, right? When you work in Arcadia, buyer is king. When you work elsewhere, like that's the structure, like the UK, I centric. I mean, they were UK founders, like British founders, but they just didn't build from... So what they did is like they had founders and they basically did all the buying and they just needed people to put the orders through. So they became merchandisers. The merchandisers were kind of like the ones that led everything. So then the buyers were just below them in a ranking. So that actually when you had an opinion that the merchandiser took Trump's and just did what they wanted to do. It was a really difficult situation. The buying team was tiny and you kind of just were there to manage samples, pull out stuff for meetings. And then it started to switch a little bit because my head of buying wanted to make, she came from like a big UK retailer. I can't remember where she came from now. Should remember, I can't. And she, so she was part, she used to like being the Jeanette, like, sorry, you know, the, we were used to. structure. Yeah. Yeah. So she was trying to put that in place, but obviously it's really hard for her. She was having to then try and manage the founder who was then CEO. And then try and filter into us as a team. And at the time there was only one, six of us as a buying team. And there was probably about 24 merchandises I'd say. Yeah, there's a buyer slash assistant buyer. You'd had loads of departments to manage, but you weren't really managing them because you couldn't really buy for them as such. Why did they need that many merchandisers? Because they also had a franchise section as well. OK, so there was merchandise in the franchise. they're kind of like demand planners slash merchandisers. Yeah. And then they worked really closely with logistics, but the merchandisers have a full floor and we had like two desks, two like long desks. And it was like that. Yeah, it's I was talking about it just the just the other episode about about being in restructures, you know, when someone comes in and restructures and they're like, I remember being in one being like, let's cut down the merchandising team. And I can't remember exactly the proportions, but it was just like, let's have four merchandisers, 20 buyers. So it's almost like the flip reverse of that. And I remember being like, I'm going to keep quiet because I'm in the good camp here. But like, this is crazy. Like they really complement each other like buys merchandises go together hand in hand and it's really unbalanced if you have more of one than another or you need to make sure that the skill set that they have is more spread out. So actually your merchandises maybe are more like logistics and planning and that sort of side of things and shipping and then your buyers need to be doing more of the numbers. But if you've got a company that has predominantly product development buyers who maybe are much more from the design side of the merchandising and you cut your major, your merchandising team, you're just going to go. Yeah, you've got no one to look. Same with the merchandising thing. If you've got so many merchandisers and really small sort of like buying team that have more of a design edge, then you're not going to be, you're just going to be sort of potentially just sticking with what the numbers are telling you and you're not going to have that creativity. Yeah. And then I think that happens more in retail, doesn't it? think actually when you're not in retail, you do a lot more like numbers work. But I think when you are sorry, like fashion, like clothing, I feel like when you're in clothing, there's obviously a lot more product development to do versus when you're in like other product areas. So yeah, I don't know how that happened, but they were very, was just, it was same again, no processes, nothing really in place. And it was just really, it's just a big learning curve. really big learning curve that place. And then we went to our very own Brexit at Superdry, by the way. had a, Jules was the founder or part founder with James, James Holder. And then basically what happened is Jules got booted off. He got taken like gone by the CEO. We don't really know how that happened. Basically in about a year later, the CEO left. And then Jules was voted back in by the the slimmest margins to come back. So like we all live this like new life where he wasn't there anymore. And we all were like, you know, loving life because he wasn't there like buying random stuff and bringing it into your department and you're not knowing what was coming next. And then he just came back in one day and he was like, oh, hey, I'm back. And like the new CEO or the new product developer, he'd He's like putting loads of different constructs and one of them was kids. Like they were going to do super dry kids. My old head of buying was heading up super dry kids. So basically Jules came back and was like, no, we're not doing that. And they'd already sold it to franchises. They've yeah, it was going to go into net. They thought they'd basically, but he went, no, we're not doing it. And then she left. There's no job for you here. Cause we don't do that. Yeah. the whole year she worked on it. She worked on it for ages. Everyone was so excited about it. Everyone was like, yeah, this is great direction. And then he just literally one day turned up again. He's like, I'm back. I'm back and I'm here to just turn it all up. Yeah, it was crazy. And we're like, this is like Brexit party. Nothing quite like keeping you on your toes, hey? No, yeah, it's mental, isn't it? Really? think that's the thing of buying, like anything can change. Like, you know, in a moment, I suppose. Yeah, I that's what makes it so hard for suppliers as well, isn't it? Because they don't know all this politics and they're not, don't one minute they're in, one minute they're out. And if you don't have a very good buyer or have a good relationship, you don't really know why. if that buyer suddenly goes and you've got suddenly a new one and they didn't know you existed and they don't know you, you don't know they exist, then suddenly it just goes quiet. And you're like, but we used to get so many orders, like, hello, you're supplier. Yeah, I used to love suppliers. I was probably one of the best things about being a buyer to be honest. think you just enjoy talking to people and enjoy learning about their businesses maybe. That was more of the sort of, you know, and obviously they gave you nice dinners and didn't actually get you anything because they weren't asked to do that one week. Literally, think when we all joined buying, literally it was like the point where no one was allowed to bribe you anymore. Yeah, they suddenly put a clamp down on it, didn't they? Intercepting all the Yeah, exactly. For auction and you're just like, oh, I could have done with that bottle of wine guys. Or a new kitchen or whatever the things are that we were used to get. We were sold a lie. We were sold a lie when they told us all about the course and how good it was to be a buyer and the things that you could perks. Sure that was in the university courses. Yeah. Yeah. what I mean, the things that you're sold on and then the things that actually happen, but it's exciting. And as you say, like, particularly when you don't have any like dependence or anything, and you're just like young free and single, and you can kind of just enjoy it, you get to go see the world. You experience like really fast paced and exciting times, and you can make really like big bold decisions. Like what was like, probably the best thing about buying? Oh, you put me on the spot now. Best thing about buying, I'm going to say the people. People. Because I think you make so many, because you basically are in the office from literally at half seven until what, like half six, seven o'clock at night. So you don't have those people around. I think, but I think that's like with most of the jobs, most jobs, the people make it right. So you've got to enjoy the actual job. But most of the time it's the people that are there that make your life fun and enjoyable. So. The best thing about buying is actually being in those offices and having moments where you could chat with a friend or like, you've got a team. I had this one team that was just the most, I'm sure everyone on that team will remember. You know, you have a team that you you all got on. We were all about like, Rome, Rome, like probably from like early twenties to thirties. And like, we all just got on so well and we all, we all did Jersey, like we had nights out that we had and like, you know, everyone as a team just got on really well. So we'd have meetings then. I don't it's great vibes. Like-minded people all working together. You've got kind of like similar vibes, similar views, similar outlook on life. Yeah, respect each other. Like everyone's just kind of working to one, like, you know, you're working to your strategy. So you're all working to one main goal. So, and when that all comes together, it's great. But then that was when I got told I was putting denim. But I love it here. No, not leaving them. No, no. I was on the phone to my buyer like, does someone want to leave? Yeah, it's terrible. Because your emotions are super heightened, aren't they? Yeah. It's like being a big brother. Like you are. That is your life. Like, yeah, you're striving towards something you want to because, you know, you get like a budget and you want to smash that budget and then you get told you're not going to be part of that anymore. You're like, yeah, what's the point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you move departments as well, and sometimes if you're moving, depending on what point during the season you're moving, you've got to trade someone else's range. And then you've got to go and stand in trade and defend their crappy range that's not selling well. Why is your stuff not selling? like, because I didn't buy it. But that's never been my idea, is it? Yeah, I used to get told all the time, like, you need to be more passionate. like, I don't like it. I used to get told I was too defensive. I was too defend. And it's not that you're buying for you. You get the you're buying for a customer. Oh, yeah. It's not like I don't like it. Personally, I would wear it. That's not that's not it. It's I didn't buy it. I don't think they would like it. I would never have agreed to this. I would never signed off. I never proposed it. My customer doesn't like it. And I don't know that yet. But I'm making a I'm making a point. Okay, and then just to round things up because I appreciate we've been chatting for a while now, which I love, but I know you're super super busy. So you can either give me the worst thing, but that's always a bit of neggy, or can give me the worst thing but make it funny and turn it into a retail therapy story. So what have you had in the past? Oh God, what have we had? Just like a lot of like drunken stories, because there's a lot of alcohol involved in buying. Like sample mishaps. What else have we had? A head of buying that fell asleep. Oh yeah. a director that at COVID asked to, when they were told that some stock had already left, asked the team to... tell them to turn the boat around. Hello, Hapag Lloyd. I'm not going to need those five pairs of trousers. Could you turn it around? I don't think I've got anything negative. One lady told us about how she had a really, really big night out in Hong Kong. And then the next day she was so hung over that she had to have a shandy for breakfast. So she got this big pint. of beer and the buying directors coming down the stairs to practice. So anything that might have happened that's been on a trip or something that could be to relay. Yeah. I'm so like vanilla. Like I'm quite sensible. I never used to go out and do anything. Don't know why I did it all at uni and then I left, lived a life of just what happened at Tywhack on the trips. Was there anything there that There was nothing wrong, we had a great time. It was all and rainbows. It was all sunshine and rainbows. was all sunshine and rainbows. One time when we went out in Shanghai and like went to see the sights, that was great. Negatives, can't, do you know what? I don't know. don't think there are any negatives. good. Do you know what? That is good. If you can't think of anything bad about buying. I think it's just the uncertainty of it. And I suppose like the fast pace and the pressure. And actually the main negative for me was like, it's kind of like you're doing all this for what? You're doing all this for, for the gratitude of like someone buying your stuff. And it just feels a bit like, can feel a little bit like this is not really necessary. it? A little bit. Cause you just like, we're just doing it so that people buy stuff. That all used to be like, it always is kind of, you know, in there is like a, oh. but that is consumerism. I think it's a lot better now. The consumerism of it though, that you kind of just feel like I'm creating stuff for the sake of stuff and actually is it needed. Totally get that. And that's why we're, both Lindsay and I like feel really strongly about like championing businesses that are really making a difference. And like, you know, I've got a sustainable aspect to them. You more like secular platforms or just ways of manufacturing that are kind of improving things. And also, feel quite aggrieved that actually a lot of the high street can sometimes look quite samey. Actually, really. Yeah, 100%. Want to celebrate with other. Celebrating creativity because I don't I don't mind people buying lots of stuff if it's like lots of really interesting things that add value or have a story behind them. But it's when everybody's buying this, lots of the same stuff for what, so that we all look the same. And that's we can with AI. that we're all gonna just go into tumbleweed because we're just being fed the same stuff. And now I'm gonna go off on a rant about it. So I'm just gonna just. Yeah, but that's the thing. Like the sustainability thing was not very big. And I remember trying to push it in so many different companies trying to push that. And it was just kind of fall in deaf ears because it's more expensive, which is annoying. But it was the time. So then I think you get to a point where you're like, well, well, then if no one's going to pay attention to this. And now I think my views have slightly changed in that, you know, at the end of the day, the clothing industry has got a really big part to play, but it's not the biggest really. So, you know, you kind of, you go through phases of your life, don't you, where you have different views and outlooks on, you know, climate change and all that jazz. But it's just, that's the consumerism and just making people, it'd be great if there's more brand-stid stuff like, you know, you can recycle. you those clothes or just being I don't know I'm going off and around now like hey but yeah that was my biggest like the fast fashion stuff like sheen, temmo those those places just don't sit right because we I guess if you've seen it you've seen the you've seen the conditions you've seen the workers you've seen the factories then you're like what what is going on there like how can they possibly make it for that amount who is falling short it's But it's not the blooming owners that are falling short. It's going to be the people making it that are falling short that are just trying to scrape a living together and keep their kids fed. And then you're like, and people just buy it willy nilly thinking, oh, it's fine. Because if it wouldn't fight, if it's not fine and they wouldn't put it on the shelves, you're like, no, that's not, that's not. That's what it's so dangerous about. You're kidding yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, there we go. Well. It's been great having you on and you know, had a few thoughts there at the end about how we can make things better in retail. And yeah, thanks so much for joining us. It's been super interesting having you and I love a good chat about different things and some brilliant nuggets in there as well. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks, Johnny. Speak to you soon. Hey, buyers, this one's for you. We know that the job can be full on, the long days, the supply drama and the endless spreadsheets. And somehow you are still expected to be on all the time. So we've joined up with Life of a Buyer with the aim of creating space for you to switch off and connect. Join us for our Buyers Networking event, a relaxed night of wine, conversation and genuine connection with the people who actually get it. It's happening on Wednesday the 4th of June from 6.15pm at Bagobond, Victoria, London. Whether you're looking to expand your network, meet other buyers outside of the 9-5, talk about your latest work drama or just have a glass of wine without having to explain an MOQ, this is for you. Leave the spreadsheets behind and bring your stories. There's no pressure, no pitches, just real buyers connecting with each other. Spaces are limited. So if that sounds like your kind of evening RSVP now, we'd love to see you there. Head to www.buyingandbeyond.co.uk forward slash event. If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, please, please, please like and subscribe and leave a review. And if you already have, thank you, thank you, thank you. We all need a bit of retail therapy and this is the perfect time for you to offload about that super cringe-worthy story. We would love to hear from you all, your funny stories and experiences or even any dilemmas and maybe we can help or at least find someone who can. And don't worry, we will keep these anonymous and remove any names and brands. We would also love to hear from you on any topics you would like us to talk about. please send all of these into buyingandbeyond at gmail.com or drop us a DM via our Instagram page at BuyingAndBeyond. Kate, are you a drama queen? No. Drama just makes things interesting. That's true. All these thoughts and opinions are our own and based on our own experiences working for a wide variety of retailers. These are all in the hope to entertain and educate and not to reflect negatively on any place we currently or have previously worked.